It all makes me a bit sad for everyone involved.
Personally, I think that AFI handled it in the best possible way with a very mature statement saying they wouldn’t stop the production and selling of them, just that they don’t support them. As sad as the drama is, it makes me proud to be an AFI fan based on the way they’ve handled it at this point.
I think until, and if AFI responds to this statement I’m going to leave it alone at this point. I am on AFI’s side of the chalk as I believe we all are so I’ll leave it how it is for now. Thanks though!
Yeah, def. This is a rather complex situation all around. I wish them all luck with it and won’t be buying anything like those pressings.
And, yeah, @STORMS , I think I’m just going to not comment on any of this. I don’t know enough to really judge.
Here’s my TL;DR take on the subject:
Speaking for myself, I ordered BTT and preordered Dork in good faith, trusting that they were legitimate, sanctioned re-releases. Part of the reason I assumed that is because it always seemed like there had been some mutual bad blood between AFI and Mark (to the point where I’m surprised they mentioned him in their statement), but I never knew of any tension between them and Geoff, so I didn’t imagine he would have screwed them out of royalties.
We have two sides of this story, and none of us know about the business end of this. What I will say is that my primary motivation in purchasing them was to get “official” copies of every AFI song in preparation for my book. I deliberately chose not to pirate the rarest songs out of respect for the band. I pay for my music, new, used, or digital.
If Geoff indeed withheld royalties from AFI, there’s no excuse for that. However, their statement mentioned that they wanted these releases to remain rare. I see where they’re coming from on one level, but on another, these recordings are simply unavailable to the vast majority of fans if they’re unwilling to get them illegitimately. It isn’t reasonable to expect people to pay the sums that the early 7" records go for if they just want to listen to the music.
There were only 200 Dork EPs sold, and it’s been 25 years since its release. Not all of those 200 are on the market, and a certain portion may not even exist anymore. If the issue is from a collector’s standpoint, reprints are almost always worth less than their original versions regardless of media. I don’t think it will devalue the originals too much, if at all, because the people who want them for the sake of collecting want the real deal anyway.
My thought is that if AFI owns the rights and has access to the music, why not release them digitally for purchase? That way, they get money, and the fans get to hear the music legitimately. Even if you buy an original copy of Dork, it’s not as if they get paid for it. The seller gets the money. If you pirate it, nobody gets any money. Their objection seems to be that Geoff gets money for it, and if he doesn’t have that right, then I understand that objection. But I don’t see the logic in keeping these recordings secret. It hurts fans who would be happy to pay money to the band directly for the music, and makes it harder for critics and music historians to access a complete history of the band, unless they want to go against the band’s wishes in doing so.
To AFI’s credit, they acknowledged that fans can choose to buy what they want. But at the same time, stating that creates a disincentive for fans to buy these records, because I doubt that most of us want to deliberately go against their wishes. I myself had planned to order EPAW, but now I’m not going to. As I said, I ordered the others in good faith (and I think for a good cause), but I still feel bad about it. I dunno, maybe I’ll buy another couple copies of The Blood Album to make up for it.
@Percy you’re on point with all of this. I really hope these topics and points you brought up get asked to them in an interview sometime.
But yeah, the original Dork will NOT lose any worth over these reissues. If anything, they will be worth even more. Like starring at the fake, it makes you want the real deal that much more.
I don’t know as much about music collecting as I do about, say, video game collecting. But I know that in the case of that, bootleg reproductions do not hurt the value of rare games. I’d assume it’s similar in this case. Digital re-releases don’t usually hurt the value of rare games, either, at least not by much.
This sort of reminds me of when Nitro released the AFI retrospective. It was different, I think, in that I believe it was above board legally, but the band did state they didn’t agree with the release. They noted that it was cool for fans to get it if they couldn’t find some of that material elsewhere, though, and that made it much easier to get a few rare tracks.
This was the one with the Nephilm on the front, right?
Do we know who owns the rights to these recordings though? Given that Geoff ran Key Lime Pie out of his garage, and dealt with pressing the records, he could very well own them. If that’s the case, he’s within his rights to reissue the records. I wouldn’t consider these to be bootlegs, just reissues.
That said, if Geoff really isn’t paying the members of the band and Mark their shares, that’s a pretty scummy move.
Correct, that’s the one.
Geoff recently personally reached out to me so of there are any questions, let me know and I will forward them to him.
No questions from me, just wishing them the best and hoping everything works out at the end of the day.
If there are any questions, just bare with me as Im busy with work so I’ll be on sporadically
I mean, I guess the obvious question would be… if what the band is saying isn’t true, as he claims, then why would they have issued that statement? Nothing in AFI’s history suggests that they’d be petty about money issues, much less publicly. That just doesn’t ring true to their character. Indeed, they aren’t trying to shut this down, so what would be the motivation? Is it possible that this is the result of some massive miscommunication, did somebody lose paperwork, or what? I’m just trying to figure out how to reconcile the two stories.
This is such a weird situation. I really feel for everyone involved.
All good points. I think I’m just leaving it alone.